This post was inspired by the recent contribution by Sue about being bullied. I admire Sue's strength and perspective. What I know is that there is more to all of us than how we are perceived or treated by others.
I feel nervous writing this post. I don't want to be judged or labeled or vilified. Until recently I thought I had grown up pretty much like everyone else. My childhood had plenty of "ups" and a few "downs" but overall I was a happy, outgoing, confident child. The pre-teen or "tween" years were more of a struggle but no more than anyone else. Overall, I have always looked back on my childhood and teen years with a hazy fondness.
But recently I was forced to question all of what I thought I knew. I was forced to look at myself from another angle and face the impact that my choices and behaviour had on another person.
I was at the wedding of a family friend. Our parents, along with a bunch of other couples had been in the same circle when we grew up so we would see each other occasionally and play or, as we got older, hang out. We never went to the same school but as we grew up we found ourselves at the same parties. We were connected.
There were many people at the wedding that I recognized from my childhood, passing faces from a long time past. I met their spouses and they met mine. We updated each other on our lives over the course of the evening with a friendly feeling of reminiscence.
The evening progressed and people began to celebrate with a few drinks and dancing. At one point I slipped out to call my babysitter and check in on the kids. As I was making my way back into the party someone approached me. She walked up to me with a slight stumble; she had obviously enjoyed a few drinks, and said, "Do you know who I am?" I looked closely at her face and felt a wave of familiarity but couldn't quite place her. "You look familiar." I responded with a smile. She did not smile back.
She took a deep breath and looked into my eyes, "I am Nadia. Remember me? The girl you picked on for years?" I stared at her in shock. What is she talking about?
"I have thought about this moment and wondered what I would do if I ever saw you again." She continued. "Would I confront you? Would I have the guts to hold you accountable for what you did to me?"
I was speechless, taken completely off guard. I vaguely remembered Nadia who lived on my street. We went to the same school for grade 7 and 8 and then she moved on to a different High School. I wrack my brain trying to think of what to say.
"Um, Nadia? From the neighbourhood? I remember you. Our parents were friends. But, I honestly don't know what you are talking about. " I am still trying to dig up a more specific memory of Nadia from my childhood. Something more than the quiet awkward girl who sometimes played with us on the street. I remember that my mom would try and force playdates on us and I remember thinking she was a pest, always following me around. Our parents were friends along with others on the street and they would socialize so our moms thought it would be a good thing if we were pals. I didn't. The truth is, I had no interest in Nadia. She was constantly complaining or down about something, far too serious for my upbeat, social self.
I think Nadia was in my class in grade 7. I remember for a while in grade 8 my best friends, Jennifer and Kelly, called her my "shadow" because she hung around us so much. We had a pack of kids we hung out with and we didn't want Nadia cramping our style. We never targeted Nadia, or anyone for that matter, but we avoided her. She was always on the periphery but the truth is, I really have no specific memories of Nadia.
Her eyes are full of anger and hatred. I am so confused. "I am so sorry, Nadia. But I really don't remember much about you. We were kids. Did I do something to upset you?" My hands are shaking now. I don't know what to do.
Nadia laughs. There are tears in her eyes. "You don't remember me? You don't remember the girl you tormented for years? You don't remember how we were friends one minute and then you ditched me to hang out with the cool kids? You don't remember the broken promises? The humiliation? The rejection? How convenient for you." She laughs again as tears stream down her face.
"Nadia. Oh my god. I think you are mistaken. I don't mean to be rude but I barely even remember you. We were never friends. I remember you being around but we didn't hang out or anything. What are you talking about?" At this point I am starting to freak out. I know I wasn't exactly welcoming to Nadia as a child but I am shocked at her words. I can see the anger in her face and I am genuinely afraid.
She begins to speak, "Yah. I was "around". Kind of like a pesky fly buzzing around you. I was desperate to be your friend. Do you remember the first day of grade 7? We walked to school together. It was a new school. A fresh start. We were in the same class. I was so excited to have a friend to hang out with. But you had different ideas. As soon as we got to school you tried to ditch me. You went straight over to Jennifer and Kelly and didn't even bother to see where I was. Well, I was there. I was always there. Standing invisible watching and waiting for you to let me in. Do you remember that?"
I have a vague memory of that day. I remember a huge fight I had with my mom because she made me walk to school with Nadia who I barely even knew instead of with my best friends, Jen and Kelly. I didn't want to but I did it. My mom gave me no choice. "Nadia, our moms arranged for us to walk together. I was supposed to walk with Jen and Kelly but I walked with you instead because you were new. I already had a bunch of friends. To be honest, I really didn't think much about it."
And that's when she starts to cry. Real tears streaming down her face. "What about the time we all broke into the abandoned building at the end of our street with a group of boys? Do you remember? You left me there when a neighbour called the police and you and your friends ran off. I hid in there for hours by myself. You didn't come back and you never once said a thing."
I do remember that day. I remember a huge group of us laughing and running through the halls. I remember being kissed by Henry, my grade 8 boyfriend. I remember my best friends Kelly and Jen whispering together and telling me it was private, too private for me to hear. I remember the feeling of desperation and the fear of losing my best friends. And I remember running like hell after the police arrived, every person for themselves, across the field and into the railway junkyard behind the building. I also remember it had only been a few weeks before that my parents had separated and my world was turned upside down.
But I don't remember Nadia.
I try to tell her this but it is making her more upset. I try and comfort her but she just keeps talking, story after story of how she was ignored and left out. And my confusion deepens.
But this can't be true. My head is spinning. We were self-absorbed, yes, but we were never cruel to anyone. I was a good kid. So were my friends. But, I do know that I didn't want to be friends with Nadia. It wasn't like it was even a conscious decision. I was never drawn to her. I try and come up with a good reason why and all I can come up with is that I just didn't like her. I didn't actively dislike her but I had no interest in being her friend.
I know that we were never intentionally mean to Nadia. I know this because she was barely even on our radar. We were so wrapped up in our own lives, our friendships and boyfriends and newfound freedom that Nadia's presence is barely a blip in my memory. As she said, she was like a pesky fly, annoying and ever-present.
For the first time I think about what it must have been like to be Nadia. Always on the outside looking in, desperate to be accepted. I think about all of the hours I spent chatting and laughing with my friends,hanging out or on the phone. What was Nadia doing? Was she alone? And then I think about her mother begging my mom to encourage the friendship, so desperate for her daughter to fit in.
And now I see it clearly. I see it as a mother would. I see my daughter being alone and what I would do, the lengths I would go to. I see the heartbreak on my little girl's face and the tears and the loneliness and I feel sick.
But then I see my daughter as me, the confident go-getter, established in her friendships, happy and successful. I see her choosing her path and, in the process, unintentionally leaving another child behind. I see myself getting involved, trying to force a friendship that is not coming naturally. Trying to make my daughter responsible for someone else.
And from this I see the dilemma. Neither is right, neither will fix it. Nadia was alone and sad and this is terrible. But could I have fixed it? Is it fair or even possible to make one child responsible for another? Even if I had been aware and had tried, I am not sure it would have given Nadia what she wanted. To force us together would have been pity, not friendship, it would have been contrived, not the connection she so desperately needed.
I think about that time, I was a child evolving and becoming my grown-up self. I remember a lot about that time. It was when I had my first real boyfriend, Henry. And it was during those years that after a lifetime of being the Three Musketeers, my two best friends became a twosome without me.
Grade 8 was the year my parents split up. My dad moved in with his "friend" Gail and we saw him twice a month on weekends until we saw him hardly at all. My mom went back to work and, although it took many years, she eventually became a strong, happy and successful woman, a role model for me. But those first few years were a whirlwind of change and loss and redefining myself.
Nadia looks to me and says, "I just need you to apologize. To admit what you did so I can finally move on."
I feel sad for her. I really do. This has tortured and defined her and held her back. It is heartbreaking. I think back to that day at the abandoned building. That day did happen. All of it. But her perception of events is totally different than mine and I am sure that if we asked Henry or Jen or Kelly or any of that group, theirs would be different too.
So, I turned to Nadia and said, "I am sorry you have spent so long feeling this way. I hope you can move on and find some resolution. I never meant to hurt you."
I think about Nadia often. I think about how powerful one's perspective and perception is in how we interact with others. I think about this as a mother and a human being. I think about whether at 12 and 13 I could have done anything differently.
So, what do you think? Was I The Bully?
I feel nervous writing this post. I don't want to be judged or labeled or vilified. Until recently I thought I had grown up pretty much like everyone else. My childhood had plenty of "ups" and a few "downs" but overall I was a happy, outgoing, confident child. The pre-teen or "tween" years were more of a struggle but no more than anyone else. Overall, I have always looked back on my childhood and teen years with a hazy fondness.
But recently I was forced to question all of what I thought I knew. I was forced to look at myself from another angle and face the impact that my choices and behaviour had on another person.
I was at the wedding of a family friend. Our parents, along with a bunch of other couples had been in the same circle when we grew up so we would see each other occasionally and play or, as we got older, hang out. We never went to the same school but as we grew up we found ourselves at the same parties. We were connected.
There were many people at the wedding that I recognized from my childhood, passing faces from a long time past. I met their spouses and they met mine. We updated each other on our lives over the course of the evening with a friendly feeling of reminiscence.
The evening progressed and people began to celebrate with a few drinks and dancing. At one point I slipped out to call my babysitter and check in on the kids. As I was making my way back into the party someone approached me. She walked up to me with a slight stumble; she had obviously enjoyed a few drinks, and said, "Do you know who I am?" I looked closely at her face and felt a wave of familiarity but couldn't quite place her. "You look familiar." I responded with a smile. She did not smile back.
She took a deep breath and looked into my eyes, "I am Nadia. Remember me? The girl you picked on for years?" I stared at her in shock. What is she talking about?
"I have thought about this moment and wondered what I would do if I ever saw you again." She continued. "Would I confront you? Would I have the guts to hold you accountable for what you did to me?"
I was speechless, taken completely off guard. I vaguely remembered Nadia who lived on my street. We went to the same school for grade 7 and 8 and then she moved on to a different High School. I wrack my brain trying to think of what to say.
"Um, Nadia? From the neighbourhood? I remember you. Our parents were friends. But, I honestly don't know what you are talking about. " I am still trying to dig up a more specific memory of Nadia from my childhood. Something more than the quiet awkward girl who sometimes played with us on the street. I remember that my mom would try and force playdates on us and I remember thinking she was a pest, always following me around. Our parents were friends along with others on the street and they would socialize so our moms thought it would be a good thing if we were pals. I didn't. The truth is, I had no interest in Nadia. She was constantly complaining or down about something, far too serious for my upbeat, social self.
I think Nadia was in my class in grade 7. I remember for a while in grade 8 my best friends, Jennifer and Kelly, called her my "shadow" because she hung around us so much. We had a pack of kids we hung out with and we didn't want Nadia cramping our style. We never targeted Nadia, or anyone for that matter, but we avoided her. She was always on the periphery but the truth is, I really have no specific memories of Nadia.
Her eyes are full of anger and hatred. I am so confused. "I am so sorry, Nadia. But I really don't remember much about you. We were kids. Did I do something to upset you?" My hands are shaking now. I don't know what to do.
Nadia laughs. There are tears in her eyes. "You don't remember me? You don't remember the girl you tormented for years? You don't remember how we were friends one minute and then you ditched me to hang out with the cool kids? You don't remember the broken promises? The humiliation? The rejection? How convenient for you." She laughs again as tears stream down her face.
"Nadia. Oh my god. I think you are mistaken. I don't mean to be rude but I barely even remember you. We were never friends. I remember you being around but we didn't hang out or anything. What are you talking about?" At this point I am starting to freak out. I know I wasn't exactly welcoming to Nadia as a child but I am shocked at her words. I can see the anger in her face and I am genuinely afraid.
She begins to speak, "Yah. I was "around". Kind of like a pesky fly buzzing around you. I was desperate to be your friend. Do you remember the first day of grade 7? We walked to school together. It was a new school. A fresh start. We were in the same class. I was so excited to have a friend to hang out with. But you had different ideas. As soon as we got to school you tried to ditch me. You went straight over to Jennifer and Kelly and didn't even bother to see where I was. Well, I was there. I was always there. Standing invisible watching and waiting for you to let me in. Do you remember that?"
I have a vague memory of that day. I remember a huge fight I had with my mom because she made me walk to school with Nadia who I barely even knew instead of with my best friends, Jen and Kelly. I didn't want to but I did it. My mom gave me no choice. "Nadia, our moms arranged for us to walk together. I was supposed to walk with Jen and Kelly but I walked with you instead because you were new. I already had a bunch of friends. To be honest, I really didn't think much about it."
And that's when she starts to cry. Real tears streaming down her face. "What about the time we all broke into the abandoned building at the end of our street with a group of boys? Do you remember? You left me there when a neighbour called the police and you and your friends ran off. I hid in there for hours by myself. You didn't come back and you never once said a thing."
I do remember that day. I remember a huge group of us laughing and running through the halls. I remember being kissed by Henry, my grade 8 boyfriend. I remember my best friends Kelly and Jen whispering together and telling me it was private, too private for me to hear. I remember the feeling of desperation and the fear of losing my best friends. And I remember running like hell after the police arrived, every person for themselves, across the field and into the railway junkyard behind the building. I also remember it had only been a few weeks before that my parents had separated and my world was turned upside down.
But I don't remember Nadia.
I try to tell her this but it is making her more upset. I try and comfort her but she just keeps talking, story after story of how she was ignored and left out. And my confusion deepens.
But this can't be true. My head is spinning. We were self-absorbed, yes, but we were never cruel to anyone. I was a good kid. So were my friends. But, I do know that I didn't want to be friends with Nadia. It wasn't like it was even a conscious decision. I was never drawn to her. I try and come up with a good reason why and all I can come up with is that I just didn't like her. I didn't actively dislike her but I had no interest in being her friend.
I know that we were never intentionally mean to Nadia. I know this because she was barely even on our radar. We were so wrapped up in our own lives, our friendships and boyfriends and newfound freedom that Nadia's presence is barely a blip in my memory. As she said, she was like a pesky fly, annoying and ever-present.
For the first time I think about what it must have been like to be Nadia. Always on the outside looking in, desperate to be accepted. I think about all of the hours I spent chatting and laughing with my friends,hanging out or on the phone. What was Nadia doing? Was she alone? And then I think about her mother begging my mom to encourage the friendship, so desperate for her daughter to fit in.
And now I see it clearly. I see it as a mother would. I see my daughter being alone and what I would do, the lengths I would go to. I see the heartbreak on my little girl's face and the tears and the loneliness and I feel sick.
But then I see my daughter as me, the confident go-getter, established in her friendships, happy and successful. I see her choosing her path and, in the process, unintentionally leaving another child behind. I see myself getting involved, trying to force a friendship that is not coming naturally. Trying to make my daughter responsible for someone else.
And from this I see the dilemma. Neither is right, neither will fix it. Nadia was alone and sad and this is terrible. But could I have fixed it? Is it fair or even possible to make one child responsible for another? Even if I had been aware and had tried, I am not sure it would have given Nadia what she wanted. To force us together would have been pity, not friendship, it would have been contrived, not the connection she so desperately needed.
I think about that time, I was a child evolving and becoming my grown-up self. I remember a lot about that time. It was when I had my first real boyfriend, Henry. And it was during those years that after a lifetime of being the Three Musketeers, my two best friends became a twosome without me.
Grade 8 was the year my parents split up. My dad moved in with his "friend" Gail and we saw him twice a month on weekends until we saw him hardly at all. My mom went back to work and, although it took many years, she eventually became a strong, happy and successful woman, a role model for me. But those first few years were a whirlwind of change and loss and redefining myself.
Nadia looks to me and says, "I just need you to apologize. To admit what you did so I can finally move on."
I feel sad for her. I really do. This has tortured and defined her and held her back. It is heartbreaking. I think back to that day at the abandoned building. That day did happen. All of it. But her perception of events is totally different than mine and I am sure that if we asked Henry or Jen or Kelly or any of that group, theirs would be different too.
So, I turned to Nadia and said, "I am sorry you have spent so long feeling this way. I hope you can move on and find some resolution. I never meant to hurt you."
I think about Nadia often. I think about how powerful one's perspective and perception is in how we interact with others. I think about this as a mother and a human being. I think about whether at 12 and 13 I could have done anything differently.
So, what do you think? Was I The Bully?
Very powerful post. I think we'd all have made some different choices if we could go back to the time we were 12 or 13; but when we're 12 and 13 we're in a very different mindset. Thank you for sharing your story; it leaves me with a lot to think about.
Yep. You were the bully. And your reaction of not remembering your actions in childhood is typical. What meant NOTHING to you, meant EVERYTHING to the kid you treated terribly. I had one of you in my childhood; the girl who tormented me in middle-school and high-school (buffalo butt, big boobs, etc) had no problem whatsoever walking up to me at our high school reunion like we were old friends, like she hadn't helped park the body issues I still carry with me 30 years later. The bad stuff is the easiest to remember, after all. This is exactly why I police my kids about kindness and hold them accountable when they slip up and are mean to another child. There are apologies in front of their peers, there are consequences at home, there are journal entries dissecting what made them take whatever out on another child. Kids can be awful creatures to each other. Apparently, your parents weren't hip to your nasty side. That is what is truly unfortunate here.
I don't think you're being fair comparing her story to yours where your bully was actively mean to you with name calling and clearly mean behaviour. Friendships cannot be forced and I don't believe that one child should be held responsible for the happiness of another. Given her age at the time and everything this writer had going on in her life (parents splitting up, losing old friendships) I don't think that it would be unusual that she may be oblivious to the plight of Nadia as sad as it may have been, but I don't think that makes her cruel or a bully.
Trysha, I understand why you feel this way, but experts around the world agree that in order for a behaviour to be considered bullying, there must be an element of INTENT to cause pain (physical, emotional or reputational), which there very clearly wasn't in this case. I'm sorry, but you're simply mistaken in calling the author of this post a bully. She was a young teenager, self-absorbed and unaware of the pain of another child in her sphere. But she was not a bully.
I think you're being a little harsh. I was an outcast myself, definitely a dork. Just because someone doesn't want to be your friend (especially with kids who just don't see past their own noses sometimes) doesn't make them a bully. It's not picking on someone to not be friends. Calling her shadow is the only true wrong I see in this. And hardly enough to constitute a bully. Just being rude and inconsiderate of another person, very typical of kids. I am sure their are plenty of people out there you wouldn't want to be friends with. Now, if she had befriended Nadia, it would have been such a wonderful show of love for others. But if I was counted myself a bully for every person that I didn't befriend, then I'm in a lot of trouble. It's terrible for Nadia, it is so easy to see things as cutting to the bone and hurtful that someone else doesn't even think about. Especially when you are lonely. But that is not the fault of the author. Very unfortunate and I wish she had someone to reach out to her, but was every other kid in her school that didn't want to be friends a bully too?
Hmmm. This is interesting. I thank you for your honesty. I think we can all relate on both sides to varying degrees and we all have personal stories and emotions intertwined in these reactions. I think it poses the question, how much are we responsible for other people's feelings? We can all be thoughtless and even mean at times but every individual will respond differently.
As Eleanor Roosevelt so wisely said, "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Let's teach our children to be confident and strong in themselves so these experiences don't devastate and define them.
Great post.
I can also identify with both sides. I have moments of just being on the cusp of cool carved into my memories so deep I know they will be rocking chair worthy. And other times I remember treating someone with such hostility almost out of resentment because I wanted someone else to feel as distraught as I did mere days prior.
I watch my eldest son closely, too closely at times and want him to avoid that same kind of pain I felt in those gloriously vivid and often cruel moments of the years between 9-14. I want to him to make the right choices, to be kind, to reach out to someone who may not fit in, to step up. But the pressure is enormous and the decisions to be cruel or kind have consequences. As parents, we try to outline the benefits and challenges of being the one that says something to protect the shy or the meek, trying to let him know that its a stronger person that steps up to help than the one to point and laugh.
As with anything to do with parenting, I cross my fingers and hope what I am doing is right. Sometimes life just happens for a reason.
Great post. It will stick with me for awhile.
You were not the bully. Growing up is not easy & everyone will see things differently.
To Trysha - I disagree that her parents did not know her "nasty" side, I really don't believe it was a nasty side if she was not aware.
My definition of bullying includes an element of willful intent to harm.And from how you remember the events of your youth I don't see it.Where you self-absorbed?Yeah.Might you have been cliquey?Sure.But you were a typical tween.You did not actively seek out to target this girl or cause your friends to target her.
"Bullying" is a media darling buzzword right now.And it should be.But labeling everything bullying dilutes the message.I'm trying to instill kindness in my children and to help them identify what it means to be a bully.Choosing not to hang around with someone is not being a bully.If feelings of friendship are not reciprocated it is perfectly acceptable.
I don't think you were the bully - I think you were in 7th and 8th grade. It's a period of time when we're kind of hardwired to be self-absorbed and clique-y. We can't be as close to ALL people EVERYWHERE... there's a selective process that is often natural. It's when people only choose people who are cool/pretty/popular that things get dicey - but that's also the way of teenagers. (And a lot of adults, unfortunately.) I also think "bullying" implies intentional meanness - it doesn't sound like you were mean to her on purpose. Sure, there were probably times when you could have been kinder, but we could all say that of ourselves - our grown selves - even today, I'd bet.
This was a good post. You were brave to write it.
PS - Though I'd like to be as honest as possible, at all costs, in this case, I might have just apologised to this lady... you were "correct" in saying what you did - totally - but it just seems like this has been eating her up for years and years... it might have given her a huge amount of relief/closure to hear you apologise. It would have meant a lot more to for her to hear, than for you to say. Maybe. Just my two cents. (Mustn't have been easy for you either, lady - that's rough.)
That's so funny, Tracey because I thought "how big of her to apologize." When she said, "I am sorry you have spent so long feeling this way. I hope you can move on and find some resolution. I never meant to hurt you."
That just proves how different people's perspectives impact their reactions.
I agree about intention. That is the key in my opinion.
Sorry - should have clarified: Yes, she apologised. And her words were totally correct to say... I might have looked at her and just said "I'm so sorry." It's the rest, that though true, and "right" might leave a person not feeling quite as validated as she probably wanted to feel. Or not! Nadia might be somewhere feeling perfectly happy now - I hope so. Really, I do.
And what I meant about liking to be as honest as possible, I meant "myself, in general." I wasn't trying to be coy before. What I meant was, if it was me, in a case where I didn't feel at fault, I would find a round about way to say what's true (example: I'm sorry you have spent so long feeling this way...) but it's not the same as just saying, "I'm sorry." Which is sometimes all the other person wants to hear... you know what I mean?
Yes, different perspectives = different reactions.
At my children's school they are taught that exclusion is a form of bullying. I think that this story proves that it is true. My own son has been a victim of exclusion. The parent of the other child told me that she was just trying to allow her child the independence to choose who his friends are. She tried to talk to him and told him that my son would be hurt if he was not invited to play and her son told her that he didn't care. The other mother did not tell him that it was wrong not to care about someone else's feelings. I feel like she failed to teach him a valuable lesson that day.
If you had been taught that lesson as a young person, maybe you would have been more sensitive to Nadia's plight. Obviously, it is not fair to make one child responsible for another child's happiness, but if we can teach our children the valuable quality of empathy, maybe they would want to include everyone in their circle of friends, rather than excluding some kids because they are "pests".
So, yes, I think that you were the bully. I also think that your apology wasn't a real apology at all. All you did was tell her you were sorry that she felt bad, but did not accept any responsibility for causing any of that hurt. I think a better apology might have been to admit that you were young and self-absorbed and not sensitive enough to understand the pain you were causing.
I was Nadia. The child who was not popular, didn't have many friends. But as a mother, no you were not the bully.
Raising three children of my own, you can force friendships between children. i think that your mother and nadia's mother were the unsupecting bullies. thet thought what they were doing was right trying to protect there children, but in the process they hurt nadia's self esteem, making her think you wanted to be her friend
Friendship is a natural process, and cannot be forced. As with adults, personality and other factors make us who we are and who we attract, we cannot be everyones friend. as adolescents "tweens", we are in our own self absorbed world, and we forget about the feeling of others, but as for you being a bully, i dont think. but as a mother, i hope you dont make the same mistake with your kids.
as for Nadia, I was her in school, we cannot let that shape who we are and whom we have become, and if she is still bitter then i think there may be more going on with her then you know. i don't hold grudges against anyone from my teen years, i wont try to make friends with them today, but i am not angry with them either.
My children's school also taught that you can't exclude people if they ask to play with you, and my children follow that rule. An unfortunate result was that one day when a child my daughter did not like to play with but included anyways took something from her and she tried to get it back, the other girl choked her so hard she threw up. Sometimes there are reasons that children avoid other children, and I felt horrible thinking that perhaps that could have been avoided if I had trusted her instincts. Thankfully, they still do care about other children's feelings.
you werent a bully. you were just plain mean and nasty and exclusive
funny thing, i was tortured when i was younger. all through grade school. people now come up and apologize to me and ask for my forgivness for either doing something or not doing something. I always causually tell them to forget about it and move on to another topic, but i dont say that i forgive them. their shock is priceless and the best revenge. i dont allow them to bring the topic up again. it thier guilt. i shouldnt have to suffer because of their guilt.
that said in this situation, it doesnt hurt you to apologize, however her happieness shouldnt be reliant on a apology from you.
What a heartbreaking story. This is something I'm going to struggle with for a very long time with my own little girl who's currently about to turn 4. Teaching her to respond to others, being aware of what's going on around her...BUT....she also needs to just be in the moment. Be joyful. As you said how much responsibility can we put on the shoulders of our children.
It's so hard being that child in that age...and I truly think that if we do our very best to give them the best ability to always try remember the feelings of others, that the rest is up to their comfort zone. The same as I don't force her to physically interact when she's uncomfortable (dishing out hugs to anyone who asks) I would never ask her to emotionally interact with anyone that she's not comfortable with.
It's up to the other childs mother (as I will do with mine) to remind them that not everyone HAS to be your friend, or perhaps will even WANT to be their friend.
I think your apology was sufficient and sincere given your viewpoints of that time were very different. It wasn't a lie but being over effusive. You genuinely did not set out to hurt her.
In time she will need to seek help to deal with that and will probably realise that what she is suffering with is something far bigger and you just became a tangible focus for it.
One thing that has been kind of bothering me about some of the comments is when people say she was exclusive/self-absorbed and, therefore, the bully. But Nadia was obviously self-absorbed too. She was so focused on herself and her desire to be friends that she didn't notice what they were going through or that they simply weren't her friends.
Why don't we question Nadia's relentless pursuit? She targeted this girl. Even if her intention was to force a friendship it was unwelcome. So, because Nadia perceived herself as a victim and the other girl didn't then automatically Nadia was bullied? Not wanting to be friends with someone is not bullying but unwanted ongoing harassment is. If Nadia had been more aggressive or vocal or if this other girl was not so confident Nadia may have been the one perceived as a bully.
Everyone is self-absorbed to a degree, especially at this age. It is when you consistently and consciously intend to harm or hurt that you are a bully.
Rarely are these situations clear cut and bringing in our personal experiences and dredging up old emotional wounds is not productive.
I agree that not wanting to be friends is definitely not bullying, but I'm not sure unrelenting harassment is bullying either. Here is the Canadian government's definition of bullying: "Bullying is characterized by acts of intentional harm, repeated over-time, in a relationship where an imbalance of power exists." (link: http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/res/cp/res/2008-bp-01-eng.aspx) I think it's an excellent encapsulation and a great starting point for any discussion on the issue.
So, while bothersome to the author of the post, I wouldn't say Nadia's behaviour was, strictly speaking, bullying. First, because the balance of power was decidedly NOT in Nadia's hands, and also because her behaviour didn't constitute "intentional harm". Desperation, yes. Intentional harm? No. This kind of behaviour, actively encouraged by both mothers, was harassment, which is also painful to endure and should not be allowed to persist in relationships between children either.
As someone who was excluded I can honestly say I don't think it constitutes as outright bullying. I mean being different and having problems making friends is a bummer. Been there done that for about Grades 1-4. Somehow I finally gained enough social skills to make friends. There were true bullies at my school when I was younger....the ones who excelled at name calling and shoving and I actually never dealt with that. I was thankful that I was under the radar enough not to get that first class bully treatment. I was different (racially and had moved a lot ) than most of my peers.
Nadia sounds to me like she had deeper issues than not being part of the cool crowd. And to be honest, cliques exist in childhood and adulthood, I doubt your apology will make any difference in the long run to her. Some people choose to focus on the one bad thing that (may or may not) have happened in their life and not look at the big picture and all the good that they do have.
If a person eventually cannot figure out a way to navigate and realize that there are some people who will not like you, you will spend a lifetime being miserable. Sometimes people don't click, you can't force friendships, you can't make someone want to hang out with someone else. I tell my daughter there will be people in this world that will not like her, for reasons that only they know. Jealousy, envy, annoyance whatever, you will not click with every person you go to school with. Be kind, be polite, but realize it is part of life. Don't dwell on it and do cherish and appreciate the friends who do like you the way you are. Constantly depending on other people to make you happy will only bring disappointment. Self reliance is something that is just as valuable a skill as empathy in my opinion.
Wow, akskathy, great advice you have given to your daughter. I think we should all write that down and tell our own children!
Reading all of these comments has frustrated me. No, you were not a bully, not according to what you have written here. You made a choice not to be friends with someone. That is your choice, no-one should force you to be friends with someon. Sure, it's great to include everyone, but you can't force it.
I tried to force my daughter to be nice to a young girl once, and that girl took total advantage of her. there was a reason my daughter didn't want to be friends with her.
And to call you self-absorbed when she didn't even realize you were going through the trauma of a divorce? Seems maybe she was a little self absorbed also.
If you weren't calling this girl names and trying to make her life miserable, then no, i say you weren't bullying.
That is a post that took a lot of guts.
She perceived you as a bully but you weren't. It's all about perception. You never did anything to make her feel this way. But she felt it anyway.
I was a bully to my younger sister. A real one. And I have been bullied. By real bullies. You are not a bully but she was lonely, needy, vulnerable. As you said : is it fair for a child to be responsible of another ? No.
I have a 15 year old she is hard of hearing in one ear and of course she is in high school but the problem is that every kind of school catholic or public claims they do not tolerate bullying i think they are full of them selves because until this day my daughter gets bullyed no matter what she is a type of girl that takes everything in then she will cut herself how can i stop this. I already spoke to a councellor in her school but it seems they don't do anything. I would like to go undercover I look like a preteen and i will suite right in just i hope the principle will except it. what do you think i am so depreat need advice
I can't see going undercover helping anything and I would be highly surprised if the schools allowed it. Most schools say they don't tolerate bullying but in reality it is something that is impossible to control. Have you considered sending her to a school with other kids who are hearing impaired so she can fit in? And if there isn't one or if her hearing isn't that impaired maybe you should look into homeschooling. Normally I am against homeschooling because kids need to learn to deal with the real world. but with her cutting herself it becomes a bigger concern. Have you sought some sort of professional? Like an off campus councilor or psychiatrist. I will pray for your daughter, that God will give her a guiding light that can lead her through these dark times and that your daughter can see the true value in her life. It's not what the kids at school give it but when you're a kid it's hard not to judge your value based on what others say or think.
Well i didn't go undercover I think they would of allowed it I wear the same size as my daughter so you never know!!!!! but what i realize even though the high school claim they don't tolerate bullies but why they are still have bullies. I called the school do you think they return my calls nope!!!! My daughter had the courage to go to the principle she spoke to him and claimed he will speak to the person yeah as if....... if i hear again from my daughter that this person is doing it again i will go to the school even if i hitch a ride this has to stop!!!!!
That's awesome that she had the courage to speak to the principal. I hope it helps. I am still praying for you guys.
Have you tried talking to an adult who is hard of hearing, who may have had the same experience? maybe they could offer advice that could help you deal with the bullying, and maybe a therapist to help deal with the cutting.
I, personally, think that going undercover is a very bad idea.
One thing that strikes me as I read through all these comments is how raw the pain of pre-adolescence and adolescence still is for many of us. As my mom (who was a mean hand at finding the appropriate adage for all situations) would have said, "growing up is hard to do" and "'twas ever thus".
But what worries me about this and other discussions on bullying is how quick we are to label anyone who hurts us or our children as bullies. I do think we need to address true bullying, in the hopes that we can eradicate this terrible behaviour which exists both in childhood and in the adult world. What we need to remember, though, is that life is not always easy. As I just told my 'tween daughter yesterday, sometimes situations just suck and nobody is to blame. I agree with everyone's comments that you cannot force friendships, and I think Nadia's pain is a sad reflection on why.
Another interesting point in this discussion is the one raised by several commenters about schools not allowing children to exclude each other. As a teacher, I struggle with this one every day. My instinct is that it is not right to force children to include everyone in every game. I believe the best approach is to teach our children to be empathetic...when a child complains of being excluded, we should encourage discussion amongst all parties along the lines of, "how did it make you feel when Joey wouldn't let you play soccer?", with the children responding using "I" statements (e.g. "I felt sad, and I felt like they didn't like me"). Then ask the other children for their viewpoint, "Joey, why didn't you want to let Mikey play soccer?". Usually what you get back is something like, "we already had 8 players, having a ninth would make the teams uneven". Then you can help them see each other's points of view and help negotiate a settlement like, "could Mikey rotate in with some other players?" or "could one person be a referee", etc. In my experience, this approach almost always works.
I prefer to think we can teach our children to be empathetic and to try to solve problems themselves (or with adult assistance when necessary) and find the famous Steven Covey "third way", rather than just saying, "it's not okay to exclude anyone", which is fraught with problems. I think Nadia's enduring pain proves this point.
im sorry but simply because someone doesnt think they were a bully, or doesnt remember incidences or being a bully doesnt mean it didnt happen. most of us dont ever believe we did something wrong when it comes to disagreements. doesnt mean that the other person's veiw doesnt have merit. like i said, from what the auther described it doesnt sound like she was bullying, but if nadia felt she was bullied then there must be some merit behind that. just because you dont remember something, doesnt mean it didnt or did happen.
why not be the bigger person and just apologize.
eta:
going through a parents divorce or being 12-14 doesnt give someone a free pass to being mean, nasty and exclusive.
i was going to write tracey's exact words...that she was 12, and not a bully. i don't think that at that age kids have the ability to tactfully say, "i'm sorry but i really don't want to hang out with you".
so that comes to my question, if she did say that to her face and in the way i have posed, would THAT be bullying? would nadia have come up to her at the wedding and confronted her about her saying "i don't want to be friends with you"? i don't thing she can win in any situation.
even as adults we don't say that to people. how do you tell someone you don't like them? as an adult, tell me that and then tell me how to tell that to a 12 year old.
we have developed ways to avoid people. do you like every person you work with? i doubt it. do you go out with the people you don't connect with because it's the right thing to do? probably not, but you work together in a professional environment to get a job/assignment/project done and then move on. as adults you can recognize that that person is someone i will not hang out with but i must work with and we have the ability to suck it up and get the job done. as adults we have developed ways of (trying) to tactfully come up with excuses as to why i can't go out for a drink with you. for a 12 year old, they ignore the "problem" and hope it goes away. how many times have i heard that as a kid about my brother? "just ignore him and he'll go away". i'm sure most of you have heard that from your parents as well.
it really sounds like there was a disconnect between daughters and parents here and there was no communication at all. her mom didn't listen to her when she said she wanted to walk with her friends and (i'm only assuming here) that nadia didn't say anything to her mom about feeling left out.
She isn't a bully, but kids are not being brought up to think about the feelings of others. The girls (or boys but girls are far nastier) like this one, can make somebody else feel bad without even trying....and even worse, it doesn't even effect her smug little life at all......How great is it that all that can go on and somebody not even notice. Thats not so much as normal self absorbed teens as it is not caring or thinking how you are making somebody else feel. I have brought my kids up to think about others feelings, not to ever bully or be rude to anybody. I want them to know that being the most popular thing in school doesn't make you a better person than anybody else.......
When i was around 12 yrs. old, my mom moved 2 mths. after school started........and so did another girl. These 2 girls used to wait outside school for me to fight....and bully the heck out of me....2 guys ended up stopping it basicly by telling them if they touched meor said anything to me again, they would take care of them, themselves. It wasn't right maybe, but they left me alone. It was too late by that time because i was avoided by everybody. To this day i remember those 2 things names and what they used to look like. I saw one of them yrs. ago working in a toy store. It pissed me off to no end just seeing her....I waited outside for quite a while for her to get off work.. I was going to confront her and ask her if she wanted to try and beat me up now. I am not that same shy kid who just wanted to either belong or be left alone.....but not bullied. All the same ppl./girls went to the same high school as me, by that time i was so unhappy i quit in gr.10. I wanted to be know where near any of them.
I wanted to be a police officer and ended up doing everything but that......I let them ruin what i wanted to be. Nobody should let anybody have that much power over them, esp. when by now, those 2 wouldn't prob. remember me either. Stories like this make me sick because sometimes parents being more involved in the way kids LOOK at others, would make a big dif. I'll bet at the time it was pretty funny when they talked about "Nadia" being ditched, but she was too shallow to even remember that part. Theres no way on earth that it wasn't talked or laughed about after.....She just didn't care about anybody elses feelings at the time to remember something THAT un-important.
Unlike many I was raised with the mind that I was special (to my family) and to everyone else, you are just another body (neither good or bad, just indifferent). With that knowledge, I didn't allow peoples indifference to sway my self image. If I developed a friendship great, if not maybe we were not each others cup of tea. Up until grade 7, I was very popular, then I moved to a new neighbourhood and school and I fell to the bottom of the social network. Other than a select few, no one really bullied me, rather, they hardley noticed me. It is deluded to think that I could come in and create the same bonds with these people, some of which had been together since Kindergarten. Of those that I did bond with, I was still on the periphery, and I was okay with that.
I believe a friendship is a privlidge not a right.
Nadia did not have the right to your friendship nor did she enjoy the privlidge of it, but that does not make you a bully. Your indifference is not cruel, but a natural state of mind.
For those who state otherwise, consider your own lives.
Is there a loner mom at the hockey rink/ soccer field? Do you ensure their inclusion?
There are children who can not afford food/ shelter/ extra curricular programs, do you sponsor them?
You pass the homeless person begging for change, but continue walking.
Just because you said No to any of the above does not mean you are a bully. We may empathize with their plight, but may not be in a position or mindset to assist.
A 12 yr old girl is by no means responsible for creating the self image of another 12yr old girl nor is she in the position or midset to do so.
Amen, April! If there were only more people in this world like you, the world wouldn't be such a dour place.
Like you, I hopped schools in Grade 7. There was a bully in my class, though. I was overweight in Grade 7, and he used that to my disadvantage...constantly. It's much easier to pick on the "new kid", because there's no one who has any vested interest in him. I was the butt of many jokes around class, and not very well liked. My clique at my old school had moved on without me, and had forgotten all about me.
And, like you, I was raised in a family where family matters more than anything else. My parents never had a very broad circle of friends, and it didn't matter. Seeking others opinions was the absolute last thing on their minds, and they raised their children to be the same.
And you know what? Quite often, I feel it's much better to be the fly on the wall than an active participant. You learn so much about society by observing it from the outside. Not that I'm an outsider all the time. I was also raised with strong morals, and a strong belief to defend my own opinion, which developed me into a fantastic leader as well. Self-confidence and self-worth are more esteemed in society than seeking the valuation of others.
Wow, April...awesome post. Really made me think. Thanks for adding your comments.
Sounds like Nadia has some very personal issues that she needs to work through. That's all part of adolescence: bully and be bullied. I remember a few kids from my past who I was not the nicest too. I also remember of getting my share of torment handed to me as a kid. But, you know what? We all have. We've all been teased by kids about our hair, our weight, the size of our nose. We've also teased as much. It's the pains of adolescence.
But, to dwell on those and make them control your life...there's some deep mental issues going on.
We all face bullies. Even as adults in the workforce, bullies stare us down. They'll never go away, and teaching kids to ignore them is wrong because they'll have to ignore people their whole lives. Even when we're in the nursing home, we'll face bullies there. It will never stop. We need to be teaching our children to face their tormentors and not let it bother them. Move on, and let the water roll right off. Focus on yourself, and what makes you you. People who dwell on the feelings of others need to be taught how to step back and consider their lives. I'm sorry, but most people I interact with through the day don't even cross my mind later. I try to be a nice guy when possible, but I have my own life and my own ambitions to focus on. We can't spend our lives trying to please others and make others happy, or worry that our actions might offend or alienate someone.
Why is it that the ones who were bullied, called names etc, and were affected by it to some extent need help and have personal issues? Some people for one reason or another go on with life (maybe after some time), but that doesn't mean they forget those faces. It's also NOT or shouldn't be "part of adolescence: bully and be bullied". Thats crap. It may be for a lot of ppl. but it shouldn't and it's not right.....If kids were brought up correctly and the parents actually KNEW their kids and stopped covering for them, there wouldn't be as many bullies. Why is it that the kids who were tormanted day after day (by kids who need to make themselves feel better by picking on others) have "mental issues". Maybe they should start taking those kids and parents who are doing the bullying to court and make them accountable then for the mental state of the people who they tormanted??
I have never bullied anybody ever, but now i don't take crap from anybody. I help people who are homeless when i can and i feed the wild animals. I go 2 towns over to feed birds and squirrels i started to feed when i went back to school because they started to depend on some food that i gave them. I would still like to tell the lowly crap that tormented me in school what they did, how it affected my life (i let it) and that i doing good, but that they will always be a peice of crap. Everybody will answer for these things in the end, no matter how little a part of their life they think it was or don't even remember. It's not about worrying about pleasing anybody or everybody, but it's thoughts and feelings like that, that help make bullies. Telling your kids not to worry about how others feel or not to worry if your actions offend somebody? Why not? It wouldn't hurt to take a second to think about it.
Bravo. I think this is a very brave post. With so many people who say that they were bullied when young, one has to wonder ... where are all these bullies? No one ever says, "I was a bully." (And I've heard countless mothers say that their children are victims of bullies, but never have I heard one admit their child to be the bully.)
I can remember mean things being said to me. But I don't consider myself as having been bullied, but perhaps another person in my shoes might feel differently. And I too can remember having said mean things when I was a pre-teen too. It's a very confusing time and fitting in with the crowd feels so desperately important at that age.
At this point in my life, all I can do is focus on my own children -- teach them empathy, teach them how influential a bystander can be, and let them know I'm here to listen if they are having a tough time with their peers.
No, you weren't a bully, just like others said you can't force a friendship. However, if you consciously invited her to do things with you, and then just ditched her, yeah, that would be pretty much bully behavior.
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